Energy Drain, revised.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:25 pm

Grakus wrote:

I know for a fact you are going to buff necros in some way. You've said it countless times, both public and private they need buffs. Edrain is one of the few logical choices for you to.

It can't be a fact, because I haven't decided. Just because you are certain of something, that doesn't make it a fact. If enough people respond to my post with good reasons why Necromancers do not need either of those power-ups, I am certainly willing to leave them alone.

Grakus · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:28 pm

You say that as if I am somehow not omnipresent and infinitely wise.

But, come on, D, you and I both know necros are in trouble. The number of necromancers is at an all-time low. Give them a bone. (like that? necromancers, bones, get it?)

Sklz711 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:06 am **Posts:** 719

Dulrik wrote:

Grakus wrote:

Dulrik's already going to do it. Sorry folks.

Contrary to this, I haven't made any final decisions. I've been reading this thread and letting it fully influence my thinking. (So, in case anyone is wondering, contributing to the gameplay threads does make an impact on what changes get made to the game.)

As for Necromancers, I think they are still pretty good, but could use a few tweaks. Rather than revert anything, I'd rather tweak existing abilities or give them some more options. Here's some ideas I was thinking about that you can feel free to comment on:

1. Energy Drain - Gets a buff in the ability to drain PE along with what it does currently. I liked the idea that the XP drain goes up a bit but if you don't drain XP, it does the PE drain (or perhaps additional PE drain). I would also add a Restoration ability on NPC Healers (only), that would enable you to pay a fairly large GP cost to recover your XP. You would only have a limited amount of time after the Energy Drain happens to use Restoration before the XP loss becomes permanent.

2. Dark Infusion (aka Resist Turning) - Casting this buff spell on an undead would make it impossible to cancel the control or dispel the animation affect of a necromancer's undead, but it would come at the price of increased concentration and mana drain. It might also reduce damage from positive energy spells like bolt of glory and holy word.

There are a lot of things that could be tweaked on both of these ideas, so feel free to fire away with your ideas.

If it's going to be able to be restored, the XP loss needs to be significantly buffed, like back to the half-level range at least. Being able to restore it is the same as saying it isn't permanant.

The second idea I like on one hand, and I dislike on the other. If it raises the concentration cost over what control used to be I dislike it, as even before the lowering of concentration animates were better. If it still makes it slightly lower than what it used to be, it's not bad.

A possible idea would be if it ends up making the total concentration cost higher than what it was pre-buff to make the infusion go both ways. Slightly higher than pre-buff conc if you want it, but make it immune to cancel, and then give a sum of positive energy resist to the necro. That'd definately be worthy of a light concentration slot, and would make Delfs a bit more attractive as well since most light spells fall under positive anyway.

This would also help animates more as well since all the conc that would have been going to control undead could go to more casts of infusion.

Minette · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:50 pm **Posts:** 1798

Dulrik wrote:

1. Energy Drain - Gets a buff in the ability to drain PE along with what it does currently. I liked the idea that the XP drain goes up a bit but if you don't drain XP, it does the PE drain (or perhaps additional PE drain). I would also add a Restoration ability on NPC Healers (only), that would enable you to pay a fairly large GP cost to recover your XP. You would only have a limited amount of time after the Energy Drain happens to use Restoration before the XP loss becomes permanent.

The way I see it, time = money.

Whether if necromancer energy drains experience, making others fix themselves with gold, or just simply junking their items -- it is pretty much the same deal. Players are then resorting to doing the mundane, repetitive things in SK. Coupled with area familiarity limitations, eventually there will be a time players 'give up'.

I really like the idea of draining PE, however. I think the direction should go towards there more. Draining a chunk of PE from enemies could mean they would need to make more conscious decisions on using their skills, and/or their chance of escaping taken away. This in turn makes necromancer very fearsome.

Instead of players thinking, "Oh god damn it this necro is going to energy drain me and I have to spend so many hours getting my experience back, or gather money AGAIN." They would be more like, "Okay, they might drain all my energy so I can't recall, but I still have shot to fight them. And there is a chance they won't junk my stuff."

Dulrik wrote:

2. Dark Infusion (aka Resist Turning) - Casting this buff spell on an undead would make it impossible to cancel the control or dispel the animation affect of a necromancer's undead, but it would come at the price of increased concentration and mana drain. It might also reduce damage from positive energy spells like bolt of glory and holy word.

How should we look at this one? There are already a bunch of spells a necromancer has to hold during combat. There are also many ways to drop necromancer's concentration temporarily, and in turn losing their holds on the spells. So... having more spells to hold, in this case, may ward controls from cancellation spell, but other big hitters such as bolt of glory, magma spray or simply taunt would still make necromancer drop spells. Something I am missing?

Benzo Balrog · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:48 am **Posts:** 1306

I like both of Dulrik's suggestions. I particularly like the idea of buffing energy drain but allowing a way to regain the lost xp. The timer should include time dead. Please, no more than three ticks max. Dark turning is very feasible given the reduced concentration for control, and I support making it more difficult to cancel a control.

Hoolio · **Joined:** Thu Mar 20, 2003 10:36 pm **Posts:** 119

Cancelling control is a good idea, but the dark infusion should have a low concentration cost. As I see it, concentration costs for spells is the biggest problem for necromancers. Otherwise they are very good. I think if the concentration for Spellward was reduced, it would greatly help necromancers since they could resist BoG while still using FoD. What necromancers need is to be able to Spellward/FoD at the same time and if they can do all that while still using Control Undead+Dark infusion, than they sound set.
However, I have a question. You used to be able to maledict people while they were under the sleep spell without them waking up. This was very beneficial to all classes that could cast sleep, and I believe it was taken away? If you can still maledict people while they are sleeping, without waking them up, then for the most part I think necromancers are good as they are. Perhaps give them a few tweaks. Make vampiric touch drain more HP.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:02 pm

Minette wrote:

Dulrik wrote:

2. Dark Infusion (aka Resist Turning)

How should we look at this one? There are already a bunch of spells a necromancer has to hold during combat. There are also many ways to drop necromancer's concentration temporarily, and in turn losing their holds on the spells. So... having more spells to hold, in this case, may ward controls from cancellation spell, but other big hitters such as bolt of glory, magma spray or simply taunt would still make necromancer drop spells. Something I am missing?

You should look at it as an additional option which you can choose to use or not use in any way you see fit. It's a method to further tailor the necromancer to your style of play. No one is saying you have to cast it on all of your undead. If a particular controlled undead is crucial to your victory, maybe you want to cast it on just that one. Or maybe you want to cast it on the undead directly ahead of you in formation to protect you from the afteraffects of a holy word. It makes your undead better than they have ever been before, but at an additional cost.

If your strategy considers all your undead expendable or if you want to save concentration for more personal spell casting, then don't use it at all. If you think the spell sucks, no one is forcing you to use it. But I consider more options to be better than less options.

Konge · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:38 am

A necromancer without undead is an underestimated force - their spell arsenal is impressive to say the least, the undead are a bonus. They're fine.

As for dark infusion, this will effectively render most classes without options against a necro who've gotten a control and perhaps a zombie (something which does not require a lot of preparation).

juggernaut · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:47 am

Yeah, necromancers are very much ok as they are already. Don't forget, it was barely a month or two ago when you had to nerf them just a tiny bit.

Grakus · **Posted:** Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:06 am

Dulrik wrote:

If your strategy considers all your undead expendable or if you want to save concentration for more personal spell casting, then don't use it at all. If you think the spell sucks, no one is forcing you to use it. But I consider more options to be better than less options.

Kinda like the class sucking and no one wanting to play it anymore? *coughs*

Seriously though, can anyone explain to me what is wrong with my reasoning as to why necromancers should be the most powerful solo class against lighties?

Shattered Kingdoms

Energy Drain, revised.

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