Pole-maces

Achernar · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm all for furthering the benefits for polearms. I don't know if limiting reaching non-polearm weapons in number will ever make up for the fact that polearm weapons are too slow and inaccurate to ever match up to other weapon types. I could see adding a few more pole maces if there were still a way to distinguish the mercenary, hellion, paladin, and barbarian in their ability to wield polearms as opposed to every class except necromancer and sorceror having the same ability to reach. The only benefit I can see offhand that would make up would be doubling reach of polearms over non-polearm reach weapons.

A

Nath · **Joined:** Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:36 pm **Posts:** 521

Grakus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Achernar wrote:

I agree that some reaching weapons that should be limited really don't seem limited. This is mostly builder oversight. I imagine there are that many different pole-maces in the game. Its kind of difficult to tell really, and without getting into specifics, I wish it were easier to know without having to spend hours looking at tons of object statistics. I would have already pushed to do something about it if it were easier to tell. Then again, what do you do to adjust the situation? Changing subtypes to non-reach subtypes is nerfing. Adding more weapons of subtypes that don't reach doesn't seem to offer a solution either, if they are going to be ignored for reaching ones. Changing the limits of the objects is a tricky slope as well. I'm all for a balanced solution, but I don't know that there is one here.

A

I would be for the removal of reaching weapons wholesale except for spears, battle whips, and polearms, then hitting the spears with the biggest nerf bat you've ever seen so that a polearm is generally (not 100%, but generally) preferable to holding a spear. Also, the subtype 'sickle' and 'bandalore' need to be removed from the game.

Mercenaries, barbs, and hybrid warriors should actually get the benefit of this. It's royally absurd how useless polearms are in comparison to battle spears or even tridents.

Nerfing is the way to go with this.

Goldlantern · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:36 pm

I disagree, Grakus. Hitting spears with a ginormous nerfbat does nothing but hit SCOUTS with a ginormous nerfbat (You DO remember they were forced to lose polearm a while back, yes?) and somehow, scouts keep getting hit with this nerfbat OVER and OVER again. :/ And a scout is one of those "hybrid warriors" you're mentioning.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:50 pm

Pole-maces were one of those, "wouldn't it be cool" ideas that we implemented with weapon subtypes. Priests were not balanced with having reach in mind. We only added the capability with the intention of the weapon subtype being a limited, "cool" perk.

Now people are spoiled and everyone just expects to have them, even for lowbie levelling situations. You want more of them? Tough. Not going to happen. I'd sooner remove them ALL from the game than make more.

Summary: Try to remember it is a cool perk, not an entitlement.

Grakus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:07 pm

Goldlantern wrote:

I disagree, Grakus. Hitting spears with a ginormous nerfbat does nothing but hit SCOUTS with a ginormous nerfbat (You DO remember they were forced to lose polearm a while back, yes?) and somehow, scouts keep getting hit with this nerfbat OVER and OVER again. :/ And a scout is one of those "hybrid warriors" you're mentioning.

Scouts have 'bows', and should make adequate use of this. Again, spears will work, they just won't be as good as polearms.

I'd like to see the removal of a lot of reaching weapons from the game, D, it's just silly and reach should be a very precious thing that forces tactics to be used. Everyone and their mother now runs around with a battle spear, bandalore, or landy.

Salandarin · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:35 pm

I agree with grakus (about reaching weapons in general, not necessarily on scouts + spears/bow). Between the dozens upon dozens of reaching weapons that aren't polearms, it's barely a weakness to fight from the second row. It's always bothered me to see knights fight from behind their nightmare/atyrros, but the current mechanics of the game make that the superior way to fight in almost all circumstances.

Goldlantern · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:51 pm

Every one of your "warrior hybrid" classes have bows or crossbows (with the exception of barb), and it's already been established by D that scouts are NOT to be the pinnacle of archery skills. Why should they suffer in combat with the nerf of spears, then? If polearms get that much of a buff, then I really think scouts should have that weapon type returned to them as an option. Scouts should be one of the best at fighting at reach, because that's what is in their skillset. Wimping their reaching abilities when their bread and butter is fighting behind a pet is senseless.

Grakus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:11 pm

Goldlantern wrote:

Every one of your "warrior hybrid" classes have bows or crossbows (with the exception of barb), and it's already been established by D that scouts are NOT to be the pinnacle of archery skills. Why should they suffer in combat with the nerf of spears, then? If polearms get that much of a buff, then I really think scouts should have that weapon type returned to them as an option. Scouts should be one of the best at fighting at reach, because that's what is in their skillset. Wimping their reaching abilities when their bread and butter is fighting behind a pet is senseless.

I disagree. Scouts are ranged combat fighters, if D wants to dispute this, he can, but that is how he built the class. Otherwise 'snare' and 'ambush' wouldn't be skills. Nor would rapid shot.

I don't disagree with the assessment of returning polearms to scouts, but the amount of reaching weapons in the game is stupid.

If a hellion wants to cleave from behind a pet, he should be forced to do so with a polearm.

If a paladin wants to fight from the second rank, he should have to choose a lance.

Goldlantern · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:37 pm

Rapit shot only makes scouts as good as a mercenary with a bow, Grakus.

Mercs get a natural four attacks with a bow.
Scouts get a natural 3 + rapid shot, which gives them 4.

Snare has absolutely nothing to do with archery.

If a hellion wants to cleave from behind a pet, they DO have to use a polearm. There are no spears with slashing damage that you can cleave with (to my knowledge)

The paladin bit I can't dispute.

EDIT: It should be noted that rapid shot only fires off on certain bow/arrow combinations. If your setup doesn't meet the speed requisite, rapid shot will NOT fire off.

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Pole-maces

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